Hunger Symposium: Panel B Hunger and people's Conscience - Part 1 Main Address - Side B

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The triage proposal has been advanced by several people and I want to be clear
 
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that it is advanced with different degrees of nuance. It's been advanced
 
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by the Panics who wrote Famine 1975, by Dr. Forrester of the Club of Rome, and by
 
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Dr. Handler of the American Association of Science. What the triage proposal
 
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argues is that we should analyze the available needs of people for food in
 
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the globe and the available supply. We should secondly project those needs into
 
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the immediate future to see what we're really talking about and then we should
 
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recognize our own limits that you just can't feed all the hungry. And in that
 
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situation the triage proposal advocates a medical style solution to where you
 
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provide your food. As you probably know the triage model is a battlefield model
 
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of medical ethics. You separate the wounded into three categories those who
 
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will clearly die even if you try and help,
 
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those who can survive with pain but without any help,
 
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and those who need intensive help if they're going to survive.
 
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And so the triage model, you provide all your resources
 
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to that middle group.
 
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The triage proponents argue this may
 
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be the situation of the global food crisis.
 
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We simply can't deal with everybody,
 
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so we have to determine those who are going
 
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to make it without our help, those who are not
 
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going to make it even if we try to help,
 
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and those who possibly have a chance to make it
 
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and we help them.
 
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All right, now let me compare the lifeboat and triage
 
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models.
 
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The lifeboat model, I would argue,
 
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is different than the triage model.
 
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It is a total plan.
 
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It's a world view.
 
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It's a way to design the international system in light
 
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of a certain kind of living standard
 
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that we must maintain, in light of the available resources
 
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necessary for that living standard,
 
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and in light of who passes the test of responsible government.
 
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And responsible government, at least in the literature
 
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I have seen, and I don't claim to have read all of Hardin,
 
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but what I have seen responsible government
 
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means the kind of population policy you support.
 
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The lifeboat model is a long-term solution.
 
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Hardin is constantly balancing not only
 
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what we can do in the present as against what
 
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we could do with those resources in other places
 
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in the present, but he's constantly
 
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saying we've got to watch out for posterity.
 
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I've got to watch out for my grandchildren as well as
 
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myself.
 
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And if I use up the available resources trying
 
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to feed all the hungry, my grandchildren
 
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are going to be in bad shape, even if I'm not in bad shape.
 
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The triage proposal is more limited.
 
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It is not a total picture.
 
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It's a method for deciding on assistance.
 
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So the triage proposal presupposes some assistance.
 
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For Hardin, as I understand it, all the poor are our enemies.
 
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The triage proposal doesn't articulate that.
 
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It says, how many can you save within certain limits?
 
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The triage proposal is a short-run proposal.
 
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If you could resolve the problem in the long term,
 
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they would argue just for triage for the moment.
 
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And the triage proposal is linked with, as I say,
 
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forms of assistance.
 
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So it is not an argument about no assistance.
 
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And there are versions of the triage proposal.
 
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Most notably, I want to single out Dr. Handler's proposal.
 
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Handler and I testified on the same day
 
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before the McGovern committee.
 
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And it was a very closely reasoned case
 
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that he presented.
 
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I cannot say I'd come down where he came down,
 
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but I did not hear him come down arguing that triage was
 
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the step we ought to take.
 
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What he did say was, given the situation,
 
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the long-term situation of the global problem,
 
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we have either got to be prepared
 
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in the industrialized countries to make
 
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a massive effort of cooperation and assistance,
 
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not just aid, but economic structures,
 
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in terms of the developing countries,
 
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an effort that is unlike anything we've seen in history.
 
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Or if we're not prepared to make that effort,
 
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then we ought to go the triage route.
 
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Because in fact, you can't resolve the problem
 
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with limited assistance.
 
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Handler puts that kind of choice, as I read it,
 
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before the public of the industrialized countries
 
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and says, triage is not the only way,
 
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but you need to look at what the alternatives are.
 
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Let me now comment on the models.
 
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The lifeboat proposal, I would argue,
 
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is open to challenge on the basis of both its ethical vision
 
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and its version of world politics.
 
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I want to make this critique not only
 
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in terms of the ethical vision.
 
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Perhaps in a meeting like this, it's
 
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too easy for us to say that's a despicable proposal.
 
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Maybe you don't think it is, but it
 
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might be too easy for a group like this to say it,
 
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and then to write it off.
 
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The point is we are in the midst of public debate.
 
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Even if everybody in this room agreed
 
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it was a less than adequate proposal,
 
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you have to make the proposal in terms
 
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that are going to carry a large segment of public opinion
 
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with you.
 
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I don't think Dr. Hardin would listen
 
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to a totally ethical analysis, that that's
 
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just an unreasonable proposal.
 
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So I want to critique the proposal not only in terms
 
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of its ethical vision.
 
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I simply don't think it corresponds
 
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to the shape of international politics
 
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today understood in the most hard-headed vision.
 
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But first, a critique of its ethical vision.
 
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I would argue in the first instance
 
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that the lifeboat proposal is a one-sided view of the problem.
 
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The problem is, in Hardin's mind,
 
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that the idealists allow them, the enemy,
 
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to claim rights without exercising responsibility.
 
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But Hardin never argues that we have any responsibilities.
 
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Now, here I'm not saying he has to adopt
 
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my view of our responsibilities.
 
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There simply is no argument that we
 
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have responsibilities in a situation of maldistribution.
 
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The responsibilities that are not being fulfilled
 
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are all on the other side.
 
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The implicit presumption is we have
 
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fulfilled our responsibilities by having a, quote,
 
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responsible population policy.
 
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Secondly, Hardin argues that a world sovereign is needed,
 
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but the principle purpose of the world sovereign
 
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is to force them to control their population.
 
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There is no economic or political coercion
 
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to be exercised on us, for instance,
 
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in terms of economic questions or political questions.
 
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The world sovereign has as his objective them.
 
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Secondly, the argument proposes, I would say,
 
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false dichotomies.
 
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Hardin argues that if you're going to really resolve
 
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the problem created by, for instance,
 
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colonial economic systems as they affect
 
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the developing countries, he said
 
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we'd have to really strive for perfect justice.
 
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And perfect justice eventually means
 
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you give everything back to the Indians,
 
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because they owned it first.
 
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He said, that's obviously impossible.
 
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So since we can't have perfect justice,
 
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he then throws out all arguments about procedural justice.
 
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That is to say, something that would better the situation
 
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from where it is today.
 
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Because perfect justice is obviously impossible,
 
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presumably no justice is worth trying for.
 
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There is no sense in the Hardin proposal
 
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at all of community, that there is a need for community
 
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in human situations.
 
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And yet, he never once plays back upon us, upon ourselves,
 
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what happens when we adopt a view of life that
 
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has no vision of community.
 
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Who is going to be the next enemy?
 
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The enemy now is in the developing countries.
 
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Who's the next enemy if there's no community among us,
 
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ourselves, within the boundaries of a nation state?
 
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How do you define or get defined as the enemy?
 
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And what happens to you once you get defined as the enemy?
 
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When there's no sense of community
 
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that holds together the populace,
 
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whether it be national or local or international,
 
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I would argue eventually there's a kickback to that ethic.
 
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Finally, Hardin's argument is carefully
 
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run through with an argument about what
 
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we owe to posterity as opposed to what
 
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we can do in the present time for the poor in our midst.
 
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But there is never an argument made
 
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about how you weigh your responsibility to posterity
 
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as opposed to your responsibility
 
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to the present generation.
 
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Again, Dan Callahan arguing out of not particularly
 
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a Christian vision of ethics, and this essay argues
 
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that your priority concern are those in front of you,
 
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and you cannot subordinate the present life
 
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to the future life without any calculation whatsoever.
 
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But the argument against Hardin
 
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that I think may carry more weight is his empirical vision,
 
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which I would argue simply does not fit the facts.
 
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He argues for the rich nations living
 
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in self-sufficient lifeboats,
 
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but the essence of an interdependent world,
 
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the kind of world marked by transnational problems,
 
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is that it is a world of interrelated issues.
 
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What we can do with our food when we're in control,
 
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others have demonstrated they have the potential
 
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to do with other commodities.
 
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So what we can do with our food, in terms of writing off
 
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x number of people, others might do with oil at another time.
 
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What we can do with our food in economic terms
 
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doesn't touch the problem that we face,
 
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that the nations that many times are in need of that food
 
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are also the nations we are literally begging not to develop nuclear weapons.
 
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If there is no way to adjudicate the problem in terms of justice, generosity,
 
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and human community, then they have means to adopt too that are not without their
 
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coercive impact. He argues that the US, or he seems to argue, is a self-sufficient
 
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society. I think in an interdependent world that argument is open to empirical
 
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challenge, not just moral challenge, but empirical challenge. And the oil impact
 
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is not just the oil impact on us because we know it wasn't all that great in
 
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relative terms. Less than 20% of our oil is imported. But the oil impact on Japan
 
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was massive and if we decide that they are our enemy in the developing
 
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countries and if they can put together a political bloc with oil as the key wedge
 
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in that political bloc and they go after Japan we again are not going to be able
 
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to stand back and say it's not our problem. The Japanese won't let us do it.
 
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Finally, he seems to say that some are unsalvageable.
 
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The triage argument seems to hold this too, and yet it is not self-evident that this is
 
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the case, that some are unsalvageable.
 
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Nor is it self-evident that Hardin's view of the population problem is the most balanced
 
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view of the day.
 
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Now, this is a controversial and conflicted issue, and the Catholic position has its own
 
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questions to ask, and I would be in favor of asking them.
 
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But I think it's fair to say that in the empirical debate
 
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on population policy today, it is not a Catholic issue.
 
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There are really three positions in the population debate.
 
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One that says that population is no problem.
 
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Oftentimes, that seems to have been the Catholic response
 
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to others.
 
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The Marxist response in classical terms
 
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is that response.
 
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Then you have the other response that population
 
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is the whole problem.
 
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That seems to be Hardin's position.
 
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That position, I would argue, today
 
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has been demonstrated to be inadequate,
 
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Simply in empirical terms, the history
 
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of trying to solve population by isolating the population
 
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problem today is not accepted in the consensus
 
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of the analytical community as being the way
 
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to deal with that problem.
 
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The middle position says that population is a problem.
 
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It needs to be faced by several moves,
 
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including government action.
 
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But it is a problem that exists within the wider
 
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context of social and economic development.
 
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I think myself that's where we ought to be standing.
 
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And Hardin doesn't stand there, as I read it.
 
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And therefore, I think he can come under critique
 
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on that basis.
 
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Finally, I'd put the empirical and ethical critique
 
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of Hardin's position together and ask one question
 
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from an empirical and an ethical point of view.
 
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What kind of world do we seek to create?
 
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00:11:05,780 --> 00:11:08,380
Posterity has an interest in this question, the kind
 
250
00:11:08,380 --> 00:11:10,700
of world we leave to posterity.
 
251
00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:15,160
Ethically, triage, for example, means making a conscious choice
 
252
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,980
to decide that some are going to die without any help.
 
253
00:11:18,980 --> 00:11:20,940
I would argue that we in Western society
 
254
00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:24,360
ought to look carefully at the psychological impact
 
255
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,040
of the last 30 years about what happened
 
256
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,480
in the Jewish experience in Germany.
 
257
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,900
And our fault there was that we didn't pay attention to it.
 
258
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:34,080
We ignored it.
 
259
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,360
We didn't take decisive action.
 
260
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,100
That's had a continuing impact on the West.
 
261
00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:41,400
If we adopt the triage model, we're
 
262
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,660
going to be saying we have chosen not to help.
 
263
00:11:44,660 --> 00:11:48,500
And I want to know what kind of impact that has on posterity.
 
264
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:51,620
Finally, from an empirical sense, what kind of world
 
265
00:11:51,620 --> 00:11:52,940
do we want to leave?
 
266
00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:55,120
The lifeboat model of international politics
 
267
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,800
creates a world of all against all.
 
268
00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,900
It is a world that is a Hobbesian world
 
269
00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:01,660
in its classical sense.
 
270
00:12:01,660 --> 00:12:04,180
Posterity might have a difficult time living
 
271
00:12:04,180 --> 00:12:06,420
in a totally Hobbesian world.
 
272
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:07,900
As we deal with the food question,
 
273
00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:11,740
it needs to be seen as perhaps the preeminent question
 
274
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:13,300
of how an interdependent world is
 
275
00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:14,860
going to deal with each other.
 
276
00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:17,180
We are told that during the Cuban Missile Crisis,
 
277
00:12:17,180 --> 00:12:19,660
one of the things that concerned President Kennedy
 
278
00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:22,600
was that he was dealing with a precedent-setting situation,
 
279
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,180
how superpowers handled nuclear confrontation,
 
280
00:12:26,180 --> 00:12:29,300
because he felt it would set a precedent for the next problem.
 
281
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,740
The food issue is a precedent-setting situation,
 
282
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:35,460
I would argue, for how you live in an interdependent world.
 
283
00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:39,820
Let me move more quickly to the family table model.
 
284
00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:41,220
I understood I had till 3.30.
 
285
00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:43,260
How am I doing?
 
286
00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:45,780
or five minutes, all right, the family table model.
 
287
00:12:48,180 --> 00:12:49,900
This approach is different.
 
288
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,060
This approach tends to isolate the food issue,
 
289
00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:54,780
to concentrate on it as both empirically significant
 
290
00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:56,300
and ethically urgent.
 
291
00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:58,300
Good representatives of the family table model
 
292
00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:01,300
would be Pope Paul at his speech at the UN in 1965,
 
293
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,940
where he said the solution to the problem of population
 
294
00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:06,940
as he responded to it was to expand the family table.
 
295
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:09,380
I would say that the bishop's statements in this country,
 
296
00:13:09,380 --> 00:13:11,160
the US Catholic Conference statements,
 
297
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,960
Although it acknowledges food in the context of a larger
 
298
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,180
problem, it says that we must concentrate first
 
299
00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:18,480
on the food problem.
 
300
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,200
Now, what are the strengths and weaknesses of this position?
 
301
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,000
Its strengths are, I think, that it isolates
 
302
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,560
a problem which is unique.
 
303
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,600
Food is unique in two ways.
 
304
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,520
It is a unique resource.
 
305
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,800
And secondly, the consequences of not having food
 
306
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,240
mean that people die.
 
307
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,480
They don't just suffer.
 
308
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,400
For us, to adjust to the oil shortage is one thing.
 
309
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,320
You can't postpone the need for supper very long the way
 
310
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,160
you can postpone a Sunday drive.
 
311
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,520
So it's a unique commodity.
 
312
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,440
And to isolate it highlights that.
 
313
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,320
By isolating the food problem, I think
 
314
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,700
we have identified some specific categories that
 
315
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:51,240
will help us to deal with food and other things.
 
316
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,920
As we push the issue of the international common good,
 
317
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,380
we are asking the question, what is
 
318
00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:58,480
the scope of our responsibility in an interdependent world?
 
319
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,780
Are all the family inside the national borders or not?
 
320
00:14:01,780 --> 00:14:05,440
Secondly, the food issue has been argued in justice terms.
 
321
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,720
That is to say, the structure of our responsibility
 
322
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,320
is not one of charity, meaning that we share when
 
323
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,020
we have a surplus, but that in an interdependent world,
 
324
00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:14,800
the challenging issue is, what do you
 
325
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,320
do in a situation of managing scarcity?
 
326
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,960
It is that question that has been raised
 
327
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,560
in dealing with the food issue.
 
328
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,500
The weakness of the food problem is
 
329
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:24,680
that food is a prismatic case, but it is not
 
330
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,800
a self-sufficient explanation of the problem facing
 
331
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,600
a transnational world.
 
332
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,560
Food symbolizes the problem of global injustice,
 
333
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,280
but behind the hungry of the world is the poor of the world.
 
334
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:37,920
To isolate the food problem means
 
335
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,240
that you cut the discussion off at key points.
 
336
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:41,820
You don't discuss trade.
 
337
00:14:41,820 --> 00:14:44,040
You don't discuss the distribution problem,
 
338
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,000
the role of the market in international economy
 
339
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,480
and what its limits are facing a problem like the food issue.
 
340
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,440
And so the discussion gets cut off.
 
341
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,160
In summary, then, food is a medium
 
342
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,880
through which we see the larger issue of global justice.
 
343
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,440
But it is not just a means.
 
344
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,440
We don't use the food issue just as a teaching example.
 
345
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,720
It has intrinsic significance, especially
 
346
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,240
for the largest food-producing nation in the world.
 
347
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,280
Finally, the spaceship earth model.
 
348
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,000
This approach goes beyond food as a single problem.
 
349
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,660
It situates the food and hunger problem
 
350
00:15:12,660 --> 00:15:15,160
within the context of the fabric of all
 
351
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,360
the international transnational problems.
 
352
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,960
Those problems are usually described in empirical terms
 
353
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,480
as the questions of the international economic order.
 
354
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:24,920
They are described in ethical terms
 
355
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,960
as the problems of international justice.
 
356
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,640
The representatives of the spaceship earth model
 
357
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,120
are documents, for instance, like the Justice
 
358
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,300
in the World Document of the Synod of Bishops in 1974,
 
359
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:38,120
the writings of Barbara Ward, and in empirical terms,
 
360
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,380
the whole range of issues that today are clustered
 
361
00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:43,140
under the new international economic order.
 
362
00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:46,420
What is the ethical commentary on the spaceship Earth model?
 
363
00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:49,260
Its style of analysis, I think, is significant.
 
364
00:15:49,260 --> 00:15:51,740
It stresses the interdependence of the world,
 
365
00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:55,060
not just in material terms, but also in ethical terms.
 
366
00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:56,420
To live in an interdependent world
 
367
00:15:56,420 --> 00:15:59,540
doesn't mean just there's more communication and more travel
 
368
00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:01,580
and more sharing of ideas.
 
369
00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:04,340
It means that we are locked together in a limited world.
 
370
00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:07,100
We're locked together, and vulnerability to each other
 
371
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,460
creates responsibility for one another.
 
372
00:16:09,460 --> 00:16:11,260
We're locked together in a limited world,
 
373
00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:13,420
where managing scarcity means there may be only
 
374
00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:14,820
so much for so many.
 
375
00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:17,540
And how do you decide in that kind of world?
 
376
00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:21,100
The significance of the spaceship Earth discussion
 
377
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,780
in empirical terms is that it gathers together,
 
378
00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:25,980
for example, in the new international economic order
 
379
00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:29,380
discussion, several issues, joins them systematically,
 
380
00:16:29,380 --> 00:16:31,180
And it forms a position that is then
 
381
00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:33,860
argued in empirical and moral terms,
 
382
00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:36,380
arguing that current economic arrangements are not
 
383
00:16:36,380 --> 00:16:38,620
only ineffective but unjust.
 
384
00:16:38,620 --> 00:16:40,700
The argument is not simply about redistribution
 
385
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,100
of wealth in the new international economic order.
 
386
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:45,120
It is also about redistribution of power
 
387
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,740
in the international arena.
 
388
00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:49,900
It discusses not just specific issues like the food issue,
 
389
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:51,940
but the whole set of rules and relationships
 
390
00:16:51,940 --> 00:16:56,900
that govern a world that now is a world of 135 plus states.
 
391
00:16:56,900 --> 00:17:00,900
And those states ask not only for political independence,
 
392
00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:02,200
but economic independence.
 
393
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,100
And that may be a much tougher move
 
394
00:17:04,100 --> 00:17:06,580
than the move of decolonization.
 
395
00:17:06,580 --> 00:17:09,980
So in those terms, I think the significance of the debate
 
396
00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:12,620
is the way it is posed in the spaceship Earth debate.
 
397
00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:14,860
I think food can take us into that debate,
 
398
00:17:14,860 --> 00:17:16,340
help us to see some of the issues,
 
399
00:17:16,340 --> 00:17:18,260
but we need to go beyond it.
 
400
00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:19,940
As Christians, we come to this issue
 
401
00:17:19,940 --> 00:17:23,180
with no special intelligence, if you will,
 
402
00:17:23,180 --> 00:17:26,060
but with special things that characterize our life.
 
403
00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:29,340
what we believe and how we think and how we can act.
 
404
00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:31,140
We believe in a transnational world
 
405
00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:33,980
before anyone talked about it as a transnational world,
 
406
00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:37,040
that it's a community because we recite the creed every Sunday.
 
407
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,900
And the community is rooted in the God we know as Father
 
408
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:42,620
and the incarnation as a universal event
 
409
00:17:42,620 --> 00:17:44,620
and the goal toward which we all move.
 
410
00:17:44,620 --> 00:17:45,780
We don't even believe that.
 
411
00:17:45,780 --> 00:17:48,180
We celebrate it every time we do the Eucharist.
 
412
00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:50,580
You cannot do the Eucharist, I think,
 
413
00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:54,840
and accept a world where the enemies exist by definition.
 
414
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,480
We think about the world in specific categories.
 
415
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,320
Others may not think about it in those terms,
 
416
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,600
but we can argue those categories in reasonable terms
 
417
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,120
and put them forward for the basis of public policy
 
418
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:06,560
discussion.
 
419
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,460
Charity has as its minimal demand justice,
 
420
00:18:10,460 --> 00:18:12,560
and justice in international relations
 
421
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,280
is the key term today.
 
422
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,440
We think about our lives socially
 
423
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,420
in terms of Catholic social teaching.
 
424
00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:20,280
We also think about them personally.
 
425
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,960
And so the church is in a unique position
 
426
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,920
to help people deal with what I think
 
427
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,460
are the three levels of the problem,
 
428
00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:27,340
and with this I'll close.
 
429
00:18:27,340 --> 00:18:29,620
The church can help people form a conscience
 
430
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:30,980
that is a social conscience,
 
431
00:18:30,980 --> 00:18:33,900
addressing the structural problem of the policies
 
432
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,380
of nations in an interdependent world.
 
433
00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:38,620
The national constituency needs to be
 
434
00:18:38,620 --> 00:18:40,340
a constituency of conscience.
 
435
00:18:40,340 --> 00:18:43,660
The church by definition is a constituency of conscience
 
436
00:18:43,660 --> 00:18:45,660
if it is faithful to its ministry.
 
437
00:18:45,660 --> 00:18:47,540
Secondly, the church can create structures
 
438
00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:49,360
of private sharing, and we've done that,
 
439
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,280
Catholic Relief Services and others,
 
440
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:52,900
to supplement government action.
 
441
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,140
We don't think the state can do everything.
 
442
00:18:55,140 --> 00:18:57,460
And finally, even in our own personal life,
 
443
00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:00,500
in a day like today, we talk about the world food problem,
 
444
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,700
but we also share one loaf of bread.
 
445
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:05,300
We know what fasting is, and we think it's important,
 
446
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,820
not because it solves the structural problem of hunger,
 
447
00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:10,500
but because it reminds us we live in a hungry world.
 
448
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,100
100 years ago, Dostoevsky said, the death
 
449
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:16,620
of one innocent child is enough to destroy belief in God.
 
450
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:17,980
Today, the world is much smaller,
 
451
00:19:17,980 --> 00:19:20,380
and we know how many innocent children die.
 
452
00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:23,140
And that sentence makes a lot more sense to us.
 
453
00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:24,660
And so we gather here to make sure
 
454
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:26,940
that God may be believed in more firmly,
 
455
00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:28,700
because fewer innocent children will die.
 
456
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,700
Thank you, Bob.
 
457
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:30,700
Thank you.
 
458
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:13,260
The procedure from herein will be relatively simple.
 
459
00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:23,100
Father has given us a tremendous amount to comment upon, respond to, but we shall also
 
460
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:27,040
need the opinion of our resource people.
 
461
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,200
Further procedure should be as follows.
 
462
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,400
We shall hear the respondents.
 
463
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,520
But while we are hearing them, the resource persons
 
464
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,140
are free to interrupt, to make a point.
 
465
00:20:43,140 --> 00:20:48,280
The chair will decide if the point is pertinent.
 
466
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,960
Also, the respondents can call upon the resource people
 
467
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,360
while they are talking.
 
468
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,220
No one else can.
 
469
00:20:57,220 --> 00:21:00,340
We are deliberately reserving a period
 
470
00:21:00,340 --> 00:21:04,020
at the conclusion of the responses
 
471
00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:07,860
so that anyone from the audience can ask Father Hare,
 
472
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:11,340
or the respondents, or the resource people,
 
473
00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:16,780
any questions they choose until the chair decides
 
474
00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:20,220
it's time to go home and take advantage
 
475
00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:22,620
of such lack of resources as there
 
476
00:21:22,620 --> 00:21:28,080
may be to alleviate hunger in this part of the world.
 
477
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,160
Therefore, I ask first of all Father Arthur Simon
 
478
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:31,960
if he will respond.
 
479
00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:48,200
Cardinal Wright, members of the panel, audience,
 
480
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,400
first let me say I'm delighted to be here.
 
481
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,200
Long before I was invited, when I first
 
482
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,900
saw the theme of the Congress, the hungers
 
483
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,600
of the human family, I was excited
 
484
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,400
because I thought this is absolutely on target.
 
485
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,080
It's just right.
 
486
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:10,840
Eucharist and hunger belong together as concerns.
 
487
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,660
As Father Bill Byron down here, others
 
488
00:22:13,660 --> 00:22:17,780
who were initially in on trying to piece together
 
489
00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:20,600
the idea of Bread for the World a few years ago,
 
490
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,160
will say, we started with one basic conviction
 
491
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,960
that our action on world hunger should be explicitly linked
 
492
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:36,000
to the corporate worship of the faithful,
 
493
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:43,200
an expression of our celebration of the gospel,
 
494
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,240
best reflected in the Eucharist.
 
495
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,400
Unfortunately, we are an interdenominational
 
496
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,060
organization.
 
497
00:22:48,060 --> 00:22:49,480
We can't do that.
 
498
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,200
So we do it through prayer services,
 
499
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,300
but we do want to make that link as clear and explicit
 
500
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:55,720
as we can.
 
501
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,960
Eucharist and hunger go together.
 
502
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,340
I have over there a little paperback
 
503
00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:05,780
that I did a few years ago before Bread for the World
 
504
00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:06,940
was conceived.
 
505
00:23:06,940 --> 00:23:08,860
I have a chapter on Eucharist and hunger.
 
506
00:23:08,860 --> 00:23:10,980
And I was going to read from the opening paragraph,
 
507
00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:12,480
but for the sake of time, I decided
 
508
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,760
to be kind to the audience and, of course,
 
509
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,460
remembering a cardinal rights threat here.
 
510
00:23:19,460 --> 00:23:28,220
But in that chapter, I not only make the point
 
511
00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:31,260
that the Eucharist is an essential resource for Christians
 
512
00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:37,340
if we're going to understand and deal with human hunger,
 
513
00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:41,940
I elaborate then on John 6, the feeding of the multitude,
 
514
00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:43,780
and the discourse that follows.
 
515
00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:48,060
Here, in this text that has been understood by the Church
 
516
00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:51,300
through the ages as being a Eucharistic event,
 
517
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:56,620
our Lord surely was trying to indicate in some basic way
 
518
00:23:56,620 --> 00:24:01,940
that we were not meant to commune in his body
 
519
00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:05,660
at the altar without sensing a comparable commitment
 
520
00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:10,300
to share bread with a hungry world.
 
521
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:14,020
And that leads me to what is really my first point here,
 
522
00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:19,020
And that is that love must express itself in justice
 
523
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:23,540
if we are to share bread effectively in today's world.
 
524
00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:26,300
And I was very pleased that Father Hare
 
525
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:31,300
in his lucid analysis came down very emphatically
 
526
00:24:32,940 --> 00:24:35,720
on the theme of justice.
 
527
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,460
Let me illustrate that briefly with a parable
 
528
00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:43,740
that I, for which I'm indebted to Ron Sider,
 
529
00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:46,280
A friend of mine here in Philadelphia,
 
530
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,140
a Pentecostal Christian, who I saw earlier this morning.
 
531
00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:53,380
I don't know if he's here this afternoon,
 
532
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,540
but he has been attending the Congress.
 
533
00:24:59,460 --> 00:25:05,340
There was a village at the foot of a mountain,
 
534
00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:11,300
but unfortunately, the mountain had treacherous roads.
 
535
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:13,380
And to get across the mountain, you
 
536
00:25:13,380 --> 00:25:19,160
had to drive on narrow, narrow roads with hairpin turns.
 
537
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,300
And there were many accidents.
 
538
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,940
A lot of people killed and many, many others injured,
 
539
00:25:23,940 --> 00:25:29,400
especially at one very treacherous part of the road.
 
540
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,960
Well, the people in the village, being Christians,
 
541
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,200
were deeply concerned about this.
 
542
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,660
And so they pooled their resources
 
543
00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:39,300
and bought an ambulance and began
 
544
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,320
to operate an ambulance service to drive the injured
 
545
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,680
to a hospital in the next town.
 
546
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,040
They did this, and they did it well.
 
547
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,000
A visitor came to the village, and he
 
548
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,920
was deeply impressed with the compassion of these Christians
 
549
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,520
and the effectiveness of their ambulance service
 
550
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:06,600
in helping the injured, preventing deaths.
 
551
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,400
But as the visitor began to talk to the villagers,
 
552
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,520
he said, in addition to operating your ambulance
 
553
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:20,400
service, why don't you fix the road?
 
554
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,360
Or at least, at that one particularly treacherous point,
 
555
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,160
lay the road out in a different place.
 
556
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,460
If you change the location of the road,
 
557
00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:36,760
you can prevent most of the deaths and injuries.
 
558
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,180
Well, the villagers explained that that wasn't really
 
559
00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:45,580
a very plausible idea, because the road had been there
 
560
00:26:45,580 --> 00:26:48,420
that way for as long as any of them could remember.
 
561
00:26:48,420 --> 00:26:50,460
And besides, the mayor of the village
 
562
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:53,340
owned a restaurant and a filling station
 
563
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:56,980
very close to that particular turn in the road.
 
564
00:26:56,980 --> 00:26:59,620
And if they changed the location of the road,
 
565
00:26:59,620 --> 00:27:03,260
the mayor's business would be wiped out.
 
566
00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:06,460
The visitor suggested that perhaps, since the mayor was
 
567
00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:10,900
a Christian, some of them could go talk to the mayor about it.
 
568
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,060
And surely something could be worked out.
 
569
00:27:13,060 --> 00:27:17,500
But that if the mayor proved to be very stubborn on the matter,
 
570
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:21,860
then they could elect a different mayor
 
571
00:27:21,860 --> 00:27:26,380
and work through the problem that way.
 
572
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:30,420
At this point, the villagers became shocked and incensed.
 
573
00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:35,140
And they told the visitor that the church
 
574
00:27:35,140 --> 00:27:41,700
had no business getting entangled into politics that way.
 
575
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:46,460
The church, they said, was called
 
576
00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:52,060
to offer the gospel in a cup of cold water.
 
577
00:27:52,060 --> 00:28:00,860
And so the visitor went away wondering to himself
 
578
00:28:00,860 --> 00:28:09,920
why it was more spiritual to operate an ambulance service
 
579
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,460
than to get at the cause of the problem,
 
580
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:20,860
to bring about some structural change.
 
581
00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:22,580
Well, the application of that parable
 
582
00:28:22,580 --> 00:28:26,420
is self-evident to us all.
 
583
00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:30,300
If we're going to move effectively on hunger today,
 
584
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:32,540
We must go the way of justice.
 
585
00:28:32,540 --> 00:28:38,780
We must get at some of the basic causes of the problem.
 
586
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:41,880
We've got to change the road and not only
 
587
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,200
operate an ambulance service.
 
588
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:50,140
And I think one bottom line way of doing this
 
589
00:28:50,140 --> 00:28:54,580
is by starting with the right to food,
 
590
00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:56,300
the right of every person in the world
 
591
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:58,700
to a nutritionally adequate diet,
 
592
00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:02,100
and carrying out the implications of that.
 
593
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,180
As some of you know, the right to food resolution in Congress
 
594
00:29:05,180 --> 00:29:09,860
has been bred for the world's big push this year.
 
595
00:29:09,860 --> 00:29:12,580
That leads me to my next point, and that
 
596
00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:17,660
is that hunger is preeminently a public policy issue.
 
597
00:29:17,660 --> 00:29:21,360
Hunger is many things, requires many responses.
 
598
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,780
But among all the responses, surely it
 
599
00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:31,980
requires the response of addressing public policy
 
600
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:34,300
change and the need for public policy change.
 
601
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:38,100
Again, I was very pleased that in Father Hayer's analysis,
 
602
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,520
as with Bishop Rauch's speech this morning,
 
603
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,820
that was very emphatically stressed.
 
604
00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:53,300
Every year, Congress takes single actions
 
605
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:59,820
on particular bills, any number of them, any one of which
 
606
00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:05,140
has the effect of either undoing, wiping out,
 
607
00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:09,940
or multiplying the value of all our contributions
 
608
00:30:09,940 --> 00:30:12,180
in all the churches in this country
 
609
00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:17,420
during the course of the year to help relieve or eliminate
 
610
00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:19,300
hunger.
 
611
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:23,700
In church, we can give to help the hungry.
 
612
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:25,660
But if we are silent on public policy,
 
613
00:30:25,660 --> 00:30:30,420
we will be locking people more deeply into hunger.
 
614
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:32,660
And that leads me to my third and final point.
 
615
00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:39,420
That is that we must help to bring about a citizen
 
616
00:30:39,420 --> 00:30:43,200
response to the hunger issue.
 
617
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,140
Let me illustrate that.
 
618
00:30:45,140 --> 00:30:50,700
A few years ago, Barbara Ward, a distinguished development
 
619
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:58,820
economist from Britain and a devout Catholic,
 
620
00:30:58,820 --> 00:31:01,620
attended a Sotapox consultation where
 
621
00:31:01,620 --> 00:31:04,460
top church leaders and some top professional people
 
622
00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:08,900
dealt with the topic, what is the church's responsibility
 
623
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,780
in a world of hunger and poverty?
 
624
00:31:11,780 --> 00:31:14,180
And it so often happens at these top level meetings,
 
625
00:31:14,180 --> 00:31:17,620
all of the right things were said and decided,
 
626
00:31:17,620 --> 00:31:20,300
including the importance of dealing with public policy
 
627
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:24,980
change and the responsibility of Christians as citizens
 
628
00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:27,820
to make an impact on government here.
 
629
00:31:27,820 --> 00:31:29,980
And Barbara Ward came to this country
 
630
00:31:29,980 --> 00:31:34,980
following that Sotopax consultation
 
631
00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:36,220
in a state of euphoria.
 
632
00:31:36,220 --> 00:31:39,580
And she, at an informal meeting of senators in Washington,
 
633
00:31:39,580 --> 00:31:42,140
she announced to them that the churches in this country
 
634
00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:46,820
were about to build broad public support for a big new program
 
635
00:31:46,820 --> 00:31:48,940
of global development.
 
636
00:31:48,940 --> 00:31:53,580
You know what Senator Mondale's response to her was?
 
637
00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:58,180
Mondale said, Barbara, I'll call you
 
638
00:31:58,180 --> 00:32:02,060
when I get the first letter.
 
639
00:32:02,060 --> 00:32:04,860
And a couple of years ago, I heard Mondale say,
 
640
00:32:04,860 --> 00:32:09,780
I haven't had to make that call yet.
 
641
00:32:09,780 --> 00:32:10,660
Why?
 
642
00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:12,860
Where are the Christians?
 
643
00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:16,100
Where are the people who care?
 
644
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,660
I think people do care, lots and lots of them.
 
645
00:32:19,660 --> 00:32:22,860
And they're in our churches on Sundays.
 
646
00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:25,980
But what Mondale was emphasizing is
 
647
00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:28,380
what I call the citizenship gap, the failure
 
648
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,300
on the part of ordinary people like ourselves
 
649
00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:34,700
who do care when others go hungry, failure on our part
 
650
00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:38,380
to register our concern in a way that
 
651
00:32:38,380 --> 00:32:41,720
makes a difference to the decision makers in Washington,
 
652
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,260
because they haven't heard from us that way.
 
653
00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:48,420
Their decisions have tended to be the wrong decisions.
 
654
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:52,340
And we've turned aside from the hunger of the world.
 
655
00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:57,580
We've tended to turn inward upon ourselves.
 
656
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:00,140
So the citizenship response, the response
 
657
00:33:00,140 --> 00:33:01,700
in the area of public policy is the one
 
658
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:07,220
that I see as being the most crucial, the most desperately
 
659
00:33:07,220 --> 00:33:10,380
needed today in the Church and the way that, best of all,
 
660
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:15,100
we can help to repeat the miracle of the loaves
 
661
00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:15,860
and fishes.
 
662
00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:19,020
And the strength to do that can be
 
663
00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:21,640
drawn from the Eucharist, where we
 
664
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,100
celebrate the secret of life.
 
665
00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:26,080
Thank you.
 
666
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:46,080
Thank you very much, Phil. Thank you for reminding us of miracles. Phil, may we have your response,
 
667
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,980
comments, critique?
 
668
00:33:50,980 --> 00:33:56,560
This is the end of Part 1 of Panel B in the Hunger Symposium, Hunger and People's Conscience.
 
669
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:02,500
To hear the comments, critiques, and questions and answers, play tape EC107.