Ecumenical Conference: Eucharist in Pluralism and Unity

This material is made available for private study, scholarship, and research use. For access to the original, contact: CHRC, chrc.aop@gmail.com, 215-904-8149.

Sound Item Type Metadata

Transcription

00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000

The Reverend Dr. Robert Marshall, President of the Lutheran Church in America.

00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:40,040

It was a privilege to be here att edge you in in having g

00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:47,600

and all of your amazing gift s.

00:00:48,780 --> 00:00:54,580

I pray that you for years to come

00:00:54,580 --> 00:01:21,340

The question that has been addressed to us from the balcony is one which we must all

00:01:21,340 --> 00:01:29,200

take seriously, for there is a price to pay. And we shall be assessing some of

00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:38,160

that this very morning, and whether the price is too high, or whether there is a

00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:48,580

way in which the price can make the results all the more precious. But I want

00:01:48,580 --> 00:02:03,620

to start by saying that this is a high moment of privilege and promise. It is a

00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:14,060

privilege to be introduced by William Cardinal Baum. Both of us were in

00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:20,900

different positions when we first met, but it has been a privilege that again

00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:28,660

and again we have been together in meetings, in various ecumenical

00:02:28,660 --> 00:02:37,340

capacities, where I have learned from him and I have hoped that in a reciprocal

00:02:37,340 --> 00:02:45,060

way he may have learned a little bit from me. For it is that learning from

00:02:45,060 --> 00:02:54,580

each other which is part of the benefit of ecumenical relations that makes the

00:02:54,580 --> 00:03:03,580

price worth it. It is a time of privilege for me to have been invited to this

00:03:03,580 --> 00:03:16,060

place by His Eminence John Cardinal Crowell, and to have a part in this Eucharistic Congress.

00:03:16,060 --> 00:03:33,280

I pray God's blessing upon Cardinal Crowell and upon the Congress.

00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:52,160

It is a privilege to share the program with Archbishop Sheen, a great teacher, preacher,

00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:57,920

prelate whom I have admired for many, many years.

00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:07,400

It is a privilege to share this platform and program with other bishops and churchmen who

00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:16,040

have been part of the Committee on the Participation of Christians from Other Churches in the Eucharistic

00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,280

Congress.

00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:26,500

It is a privilege today to be here not only as a member of the Lutheran Church in America,

00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:35,180

But as a representative of the World Council of Churches, both the General Secretary, Philip

00:04:35,180 --> 00:04:49,220

Potter, and the moderator of the Central Committee, Archbishop Scott, Anglican Primate of Canada,

00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:52,300

had hoped to be here.

00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:57,660

But at this very time there are meetings of the World Council of Churches in session in

00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:05,900

Geneva which demanded their attention in this period immediately following the assembly

00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:11,820

of the World Council of Churches in Nairobi last December.

00:05:11,820 --> 00:05:16,980

And so it has fallen to my lot as a member of the Executive Committee to be present and

00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:22,280

bring you greetings and assurance of the prayers of those of us who are in the

00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:31,760

council for your Eucharistic Congress. That your prayers...

00:05:36,860 --> 00:05:44,060

On Friday evening I shall be leaving for Geneva for the meeting of the Executive

00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:49,580

Committee of the World Council, and I shall be able to report directly to

00:05:49,580 --> 00:05:57,020

those who are very interested there in the proceedings here. But it is a

00:05:57,020 --> 00:06:06,140

privilege above all to be in a gathering of Christians to enjoy the beauty of

00:06:06,140 --> 00:06:18,580

of music, the gracefulness of dance, the meditation upon our Lord Jesus Christ and His Church

00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:26,780

and His sacrament, that is the highest privilege of all.

00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:32,900

As the Lutheran bishop of Slovakia said to me in Bratislava just before I was to mount

00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:35,860

into the pulpit to preach, he said,

00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:41,820

remember, the greatest honor God does us

00:06:41,820 --> 00:06:47,300

is to call us to worship him.

00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:50,900

It is with that high sense of privilege

00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:55,220

at worshiping together, at meditating together,

00:06:55,220 --> 00:06:58,660

at discussing together the essential aspects

00:06:58,660 --> 00:07:05,400

of our Christian faith that we may also recognize a great promise.

00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:14,780

If it were left to us alone as frail human beings, we would flub our Christianity.

00:07:14,780 --> 00:07:19,760

But it is the presence of Christ among us fulfilling his promise that whether it be

00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:29,180

two or three or many times that number, his presence among us that turns this moment,

00:07:29,180 --> 00:07:34,200

like other moments, into a moment of promise.

00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,080

Our topic today is a big one.

00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:44,320

It is many-faceted, or more specifically, fourfold.

00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:56,280

The Eucharist, in pluralism and unity, heritage and hope, the first of those words, pluralism,

00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:02,800

thrusts us into the world of daily life.

00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:09,760

Is that what we should be contemplating when we contemplate the Eucharist?

00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,000

Ah, yes, indeed.

00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:22,840

The Eucharist begins with bread and wine, substances of daily life.

00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:33,740

Pluralism is a sociological term and coined rather recently, and so it makes us realize

00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:40,860

in a contemporary moment of a complex society,

00:08:40,860 --> 00:08:43,220

that our contemplation of the Eucharist

00:08:43,220 --> 00:08:49,820

must take into account the situation of humanity today

00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:53,780

and our daily lives together.

00:08:53,780 --> 00:08:58,580

It is not always a pretty picture,

00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:01,980

the theme of your Congress pointing us

00:09:01,980 --> 00:09:16,180

to the hungers of mankind remind us how many people are dissatisfied, unsatisfied, hungering

00:09:16,180 --> 00:09:23,100

futilely, starving in one way or another.

00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:30,260

It reminds us that the world of bread and wine is a place where people fight and struggle

00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:38,220

for what they can get to eat. And we ask as we look at that kind of pluralism in

00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:46,020

the world whether there can be any unity. Let us be honest that there is built in

00:09:46,020 --> 00:09:57,740

even to natural life forces that develop unities among our human brothers and

00:09:57,740 --> 00:10:05,780

sisters. There is such a thing as natural affection that can develop friendships as

00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:13,540

beautiful, even to the point of heroism, that are as great as anything that ever

00:10:13,540 --> 00:10:20,700

developed in the church. I know a story about two Texas towns on opposite sides

00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:27,900

of the river, one settled by Norwegians, another settled by Germans, and the

00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:34,740

elders forbade their children and young people to cross the river. They did not

00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:45,340

want any intermarriage. But today the towns are completely intermarried. No

00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:54,260

No rules could prevent the natural affections from bringing those two towns closer and closer

00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:55,420

together.

00:10:55,420 --> 00:10:59,380

There is such a force in natural life.

00:10:59,380 --> 00:11:13,100

The social process moves from conflict to competition, to cooperation, to concord.

00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:24,400

are natural forces for unity, or the very struggle for survival forces people together.

00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:32,560

And yet, there is always the evidence that what humanity is doing is building a tower

00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:39,840

of Babel over and over again, where things are falling apart, verging on the edge of

00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,720

chaos.

00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:50,940

And so what we really see in the natural world are conflicting forces toward unity and disruption

00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:53,500

and brokenness.

00:11:53,500 --> 00:12:00,900

The incompleteness of earthly life is something all of us feel.

00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:10,140

So we would gladly take the leap from the pluralism of daily life to the unity of the

00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:24,540

Christian Church, but it can't happen that quickly.

00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:30,160

It cannot happen that quickly because there is a real price.

00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:40,240

And so before we contemplate unity, we had best make a short stop at heritage.

00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:49,700

For there is in the heritage of the Christian Church today also a pluralism.

00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:56,080

When we think of the Eucharist, we have to admit that we are still divided, that we still

00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:03,200

practice separate and distinct administrations of the Eucharist. Let us

00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:15,040

not lament this entirely. God has his way of using human failures, human divisions,

00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:25,800

so that there has clustered around each separate heritage great values. You

00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:34,620

could name them for your particular communion as I could for mine. The point

00:13:34,620 --> 00:13:45,360

is that we must look beyond those values to new possibilities. In one ecumenical

100

00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:54,260

meeting a person from Poland stood up and said, in Poland we say that the unity

101

00:13:54,260 --> 00:14:03,460

of the church will not be realized until the last day. And in Poland it will be a

102

00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:06,620

few days later.

103

00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:22,980

When we are most honest we would have to admit there are times when we feel that

104

00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:32,340

way about our own communions. But we may not stop there. We have to move on, as the

105

00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:40,740

Roman Catholic Church has in planning this Eucharistic Congress. For 95 years a

106

00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:48,020

Eucharistic Congress has been a distinctive Roman Catholic event, but

107

00:14:48,020 --> 00:14:58,220

But more recently, there has been a stretching out of arms of welcome to the Orthodox and

108

00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:01,740

to Protestants.

109

00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:08,380

That kind of development shows that we will not rest content with keeping our heritages

110

00:15:08,380 --> 00:15:11,380

separate.

111

00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:31,780

I recall the first time that I saw a pious Orthodox woman kissing an icon.

112

00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:45,380

It was in Jerusalem, in the darkness of those great churches, with little more than candlelight.

113

00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:54,740

And as I looked, I was at first curious, and then I was disdainful.

114

00:15:54,740 --> 00:16:00,700

My whole upbringing was opposed to what I was seeing.

115

00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:06,020

I had been taught to ridicule that form of piety.

116

00:16:06,020 --> 00:16:10,500

And I recall one of the first archaeological explorers

117

00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,060

back in the 1850s going through Palestine

118

00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:17,980

and coming back, Protestant that he was,

119

00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:23,480

and telling the horrors of the religious life of that land,

120

00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,860

a religion of monkery.

121

00:16:26,860 --> 00:16:31,380

And I agreed with him.

122

00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:35,820

But as I lived on in Jerusalem over 10 months,

123

00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:38,940

something began to happen with me.

124

00:16:38,940 --> 00:16:44,340

I began to know those Christians with their strange piety

125

00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:46,820

as devout people of faith.

126

00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:53,980

And I began to realize that my way of worshiping

127

00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:58,820

was not the only valid way.

128

00:16:58,820 --> 00:17:02,840

I realized that theirs was a piety that

129

00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,800

was more sensuous than mine.

130

00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,000

I had been brought up to think that the sense of hearing

131

00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:16,560

was the primary sense for religion

132

00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:22,120

and that going down the list, maybe seeing came second.

133

00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:30,040

and there was little room for tasting in the Eucharist specifically, but touching, no room

134

00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,360

at all for that sense.

135

00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,120

And I began to realize that maybe I was the one who was deprived.

136

00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:45,560

There was room to learn something from the piety of others, and I began to see those

137

00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:57,320

great churches as the deposit of nearly 1,700 years of Christian devotion.

138

00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:02,480

I say that was a slight improvement in my attitude.

139

00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:11,400

I was growing in the way I believe Jesus wants us all to grow when he speaks about the oneness

140

00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:24,160

of his church.

141

00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:33,780

To mention Jesus is to note that part of our heritage that draws us together.

142

00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:38,660

It is not our differences that deserve to be exalted.

143

00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:46,140

They need to be worked at and studied and discussed, but we must always see the Lord

144

00:18:46,140 --> 00:19:04,340

Jesus Christ as the focus of the heritage, for that we have together.

145

00:19:04,340 --> 00:19:15,760

we do worship the same Lord. We even celebrate the same Eucharist. The fact that we have

146

00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:24,180

different liturgies, the fact that we have different doctrines, the fact that we order

147

00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:33,880

our ministries differently does not determine the real nature of the

148

00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:41,940

sacrament. Only God can do that, only the Lord Jesus Christ. And so where there is

149

00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:50,060

bread and wine and the words of our Lord, take eat this is my body, take drink this

150

00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:55,220

is my blood. There is the sacrament.

151

00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:07,780

And so the heritage which we have together has finally brought us to

152

00:20:07,780 --> 00:20:16,220

acknowledge the nature of our unity as a Christian church, even though we are many

153

00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:24,700

churches, we need to recognize that we have baptism together. As one old saint

154

00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:29,740

in an ecumenical meeting said, there are only two kinds of people in the world,

155

00:20:29,740 --> 00:20:36,940

those who know that God loves them and those who don't.

156

00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:49,640

And by our baptism, by the churches conveying the word of God to us, we are among the people

157

00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,320

who know that God loves us.

158

00:20:52,320 --> 00:21:00,320

We have that in common.

159

00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:06,480

To speak about that unity, however, we must quickly say there is another point of unity

160

00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,180

that is in repentance and in the confession of sin.

161

00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:18,940

We do not know how to confess our sins explicitly.

162

00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:25,580

We still feel a little more comfortable thinking that the people of another church have the

163

00:21:25,580 --> 00:21:34,400

greater sin, the greater error, the greatest lack of understanding and truth.

164

00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:41,800

But we know we could be wrong. We know that enough that we've come to the time

165

00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:48,960

where we will try to speak about those very differences together so that we

166

00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,360

repent in the presence of each other as well as in the presence of God and not

167

00:21:53,360 --> 00:22:11,880

in private. Then by God's grace, something begins to happen to our distinctive heritages.

168

00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:20,280

Our very differences begin to be, as it were, the gifts of the Spirit. When St. Paul spoke

169

00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:30,160

in 1 Corinthians 12 about the differences in the Christian congregation of ancient Corinth.

170

00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,940

He was talking about the individuals in that congregation.

171

00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:40,940

Yet I believe there is a similarity for the differences among the many churches of our

172

00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:44,380

time.

173

00:22:44,380 --> 00:22:53,020

God, as I have said, in his grace has turned our very differences into channels of great

174

00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:56,980

value and purpose.

175

00:22:56,980 --> 00:23:05,940

That is the way that he makes it possible for us to enrich each other, to fulfill even

176

00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:11,860

in our division a great part of the mission of the Church.

177

00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:19,700

therein unity becomes a challenge. Up to this point I have spoken about how unity

178

00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:27,300

exists in spite of us. I have spoken about how unity of the Church is the

179

00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:37,720

gift and work of God. But with that kind of grounding you and I are now

180

00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:47,920

strengthened to work for making the unity of the church more visible. You see

181

00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:55,680

there's a way in which that unity is not visible today, and the fact that unity is

182

00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:02,200

the gift and work of God has made some people act as though the more invisible

183

00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:11,880

the unity was the better. But that is not where Jesus would let us rest. He has

184

00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:19,040

made it clear that we have a responsibility to love each other. He has

185

00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:26,840

made it clear that that love should not be a Pyramus and Thisbe kind of romance,

186

00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:33,320

enjoyed in separation as though that's the way it had to be. Quite to the

187

00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:39,280

contrary, he has wanted us to stand forth with each other among those who are not

188

00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,120

Christian and make it clear what Christian love means between us and

189

00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:56,320

among us. And yet, even he has not made the expression of Christian love easy.

190

00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:01,320

because he has also commanded us to pursue truth.

191

00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:08,320

And therefore it is that it is right today that we should have in our minds the hunger for truth.

192

00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,320

Love without truth becomes an abstraction.

193

00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:20,320

It becomes a meaningless sentimentality,

194

00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:34,680

unstable in all its ways. But how in our devotion to truth shall we also be

195

00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:42,800

clear about our love? Some specific means have developed. Representatives from one

196

00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,880

church at meetings of another church, as now here this day at the Eucharistic

197

00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:56,880

Congress is one way. Then there are the interconfessional dialogues to which

198

00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,800

Cardinal Baum referred, going on between Lutherans and Roman Catholics for ten

199

00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:09,300

years now, but involving Episcopalians, Orthodox, and we could go through the

200

00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:17,160

whole roster of churches showing how we are talking about the command to search

201

00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:24,240

for truth but doing it together, not enjoying our isolated selves and

202

00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:32,400

building up our self-satisfaction, when what God wants is an honest pursuit

203

00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,880

together for the unity of the Church.

204

00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:53,800

Then there are the councils of churches, with an increasing number of Roman Catholic bishops

205

00:26:53,800 --> 00:27:02,060

and their dioceses participating across the United States and in other lands.

206

00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:09,460

And even where there is not membership, a great degree of cooperation exists.

207

00:27:09,460 --> 00:27:16,020

Especially in the World Council of Churches, we have been grateful and enriched by the

208

00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:22,940

participation of Roman Catholics in the Commission on Faith and Order.

209

00:27:22,940 --> 00:27:26,660

There we study truth together.

210

00:27:26,660 --> 00:27:33,380

Likewise, we have benefited mutually, I think, from the joint working group, where we lay

211

00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:43,640

the plans for further study and work, and there are other units of cooperation.

212

00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:50,500

But we know that we have only begun our walk together.

213

00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:57,820

eyes must be to the future. And so having talked about pluralism and heritage and

214

00:27:57,820 --> 00:28:09,620

unity, we must also speak of hope. However, as we do so, let us not think that our

215

00:28:09,620 --> 00:28:17,540

hope is for a unity out there entirely. Rather, it is because of the unity God

216

00:28:17,540 --> 00:28:23,780

has given us in spite of ourselves that we are able to hope. We have an anchor

217

00:28:23,780 --> 00:28:29,660

for our hope. We already have some evidence of our hope. We begin to see the

218

00:28:29,660 --> 00:28:37,620

glimmer of the new day. And so in the Eucharist we can take seriously what he

219

00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:47,380

says, that we should receive his body and blood in sacramental form until he comes.

220

00:28:47,380 --> 00:28:56,420

Yes, there will always be something future about the unity of the Church, but our hope

221

00:28:56,420 --> 00:29:10,540

for greater visibility for the unity is, according to his world, that the world may know.

222

00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:18,380

we have tended to be satisfied with ourselves in our several communions.

223

00:29:18,380 --> 00:29:26,820

It will not do for us to blow the trumpets for our unity, our comprehensive unity, and

224

00:29:26,820 --> 00:29:31,260

then think we can be satisfied with ourselves as Christians.

225

00:29:31,260 --> 00:29:38,380

Our view must be ever outward, as indeed God's view is, thinking about all humanity.

226

00:29:38,380 --> 00:29:43,680

For he would place us before the world as his witnesses.

227

00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:52,240

It is with that vision that we are motivated to show our love for each other, to pursue

228

00:29:52,240 --> 00:30:00,440

truth together rather than separately, and to find the ways we can work together in common

229

00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,860

service in the world.

230

00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:06,740

It is that the world may know.

231

00:30:06,740 --> 00:30:16,320

It is that we may fulfill the mission of the Church given to us by our Lord Jesus Christ.

232

00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:25,000

Our real hope is the one Christ gave us, not just for the unity of the Church, but for

233

00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,240

the unity of all humanity.

234

00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:37,720

remote as that may seem. I would leave with you a lesson I learned in my youth

235

00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:44,540

from a sister, Sophie Muller, working in the Appalachians even before that was

236

00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:56,680

very popular. And she took me on one of her trips. She was a nurse. We went up to

237

00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:05,500

the end of the road in the hills. We climbed over plank fence after plank fence. And as

238

00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:13,260

we did, even though we were trying to catch our breath, she told me how she had made this

239

00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:21,660

trip on a winter night through the snow to deliver a baby that she was now going to visit

240

00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:25,380

because the baby was sick.

241

00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:28,180

And the father was in prison.

242

00:31:28,180 --> 00:31:32,820

And we finally arrived at the humble cottage.

243

00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:36,340

And there was a mother out hoeing in the garden,

244

00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:43,540

pregnant again, three children about her feet as she worked.

245

00:31:43,540 --> 00:31:48,500

And as we left, I said to Sister Sophie, this is hopeless.

246

00:31:48,500 --> 00:32:03,460

There are times when I have sighed that same word about any material realization of the

247

00:32:03,460 --> 00:32:07,300

unity of the church.

248

00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:14,940

But Sister Sophie gave me the only Christian answer.

249

00:32:14,940 --> 00:32:21,940

We don't know that word down here.

250

00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:40,060

I reminisce Cardinal Baum and my spiritual confreres and associates in the Lord, and

251

00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,780

all friends in Christ.

252

00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:59,300

Well, you have to admit that I'm the only show here, holy show here.

253

00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:03,460

I will tell you how this happened.

254

00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:10,160

Last night I had dinner with his eminence, Cardinal Crowell, and he said,

255

00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,160

wear your robes.

256

00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:18,200

Well, if one of the Cincinnati Reds had told me, I wouldn't have.

257

00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:25,880

You got it, thank you.

258

00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:40,280

But when the captain of the Phillies tells me, I do it.

259

00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:49,820

Remnants of Cardinal Willerbrand, that's a baseball joke.

260

00:34:49,820 --> 00:35:10,820

Apropos of robes, I must tell you, years ago I was giving a lecture in Cleveland, in Hotel Cleveland, and I had just arrived in time for the lecture.

261

00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:19,620

I went to my room and put on these robes and I said to the four members of the reception

262

00:35:19,620 --> 00:35:25,860

committee that I would be grateful if they would go down to the dining room with me while

263

00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:31,740

I ordered a glass of milk and some graham crackers.

264

00:35:31,740 --> 00:35:37,940

There was a waitress in the early flirties taking the orders.

265

00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:45,440

She took the orders of the four men, and then she looked at me, and she said,

266

00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,440

Well, Cock Robin, what will you have?

267

00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:58,440

Laughter and applause

268

00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:14,160

Well, we are here to meditate and talk about the Holy Eucharist.

269

00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:22,800

Now we have different points of view on this stage.

270

00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:29,720

And what are our differences like?

271

00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:33,360

They're only lovers' quarrels.

272

00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:43,320

A husband and wife who love one another never fight about their love for one another.

273

00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,220

It's a broken fender.

274

00:36:46,220 --> 00:36:53,660

It's a meat bill, groceries, but never their love.

275

00:36:53,660 --> 00:37:02,860

And we are agreed on one thing, the deep and profound love of Christ and his church.

276

00:37:02,860 --> 00:37:17,900

That's why I say it's just a lover's quarrel.

277

00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:27,720

The subject assigned was pluralism and unity.

278

00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:38,040

The very day that our Lord announced the Eucharist, there was great pluralism.

279

00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,240

Four different theological schools came into being.

280

00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:46,440

They were all mentioned in the sixth chapter of John.

281

00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:53,240

The crowd, the Jews, the disciples, Peter.

282

00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:57,400

Four pluralistic views.

283

00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,600

Here is the view of the crowd.

284

00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:08,280

When our Lord spoke about the Eucharist, they said, it means nothing.

285

00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:15,000

They were interested only in the loaf, not in the love.

286

00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,040

They saw no sign whatever in the Eucharist that God was giving them.

287

00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:26,600

They, as our blessed Lord said, you followed me because you were hungry.

288

00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,260

That was one school that sees no significance in the Eucharist.

289

00:38:31,260 --> 00:38:38,580

The second, the Jews in the synagogue at Capernaum.

290

00:38:38,580 --> 00:38:49,940

They recognized a sign, but they said Christ can't be the sign.

291

00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:56,580

Moses had given them a sign, they said, but our Lord had not given them a sufficient sign.

292

00:38:56,580 --> 00:39:01,580

even though he multiplied bread for 5,000.

293

00:39:01,580 --> 00:39:05,580

And in addition, they said,

294

00:39:05,580 --> 00:39:08,580

we know his father and mother.

295

00:39:08,580 --> 00:39:14,580

So how can he be a sign of anything we know as earthly origin?

296

00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:19,580

Third school, the disciples.

297

00:39:19,580 --> 00:39:22,580

They knew what our Lord meant.

298

00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:29,100

He understood him.

299

00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:35,860

He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life.

300

00:39:35,860 --> 00:39:44,780

But they were trained under the Bultmanns and the Heideggers of those days, and they

301

00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:50,540

said in the beautiful translation of the NEB, the New English Bible,

302

00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:59,740

how can we stomach talk like that? And they left and walked with him no more.

303

00:39:59,740 --> 00:40:08,820

They knew what he meant, but they would not receive it. And that is why our

304

00:40:08,820 --> 00:40:11,300

Our blessed Lord did not call them back.

305

00:40:13,620 --> 00:40:15,080

He didn't say, I'll change it.

306

00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:18,740

And the fourth school was Peter.

307

00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:23,180

Peter couldn't give an explanation.

308

00:40:26,340 --> 00:40:29,460

All Peter said was, well, Lord, to whom shall we go?

309

00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,780

Peter said, first I'll have faith in you,

310

00:40:33,780 --> 00:40:36,020

and then I'll get the explanation afterwards.

311

00:40:36,020 --> 00:40:41,900

Thou alone hast the words of eternal life.

312

00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:48,540

So the Eucharist at the very beginning created pluralism.

313

00:40:48,540 --> 00:40:55,820

Now how will we ever get to unity in it?

314

00:40:55,820 --> 00:41:06,540

I believe by concentrating our thought on the death and the resurrection of Christ,

315

00:41:06,540 --> 00:41:15,900

and particularly his death, that makes a great difference in our point of view.

316

00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,420

Take for example Simon of Cyrene and Joseph of Arimathea.

317

00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:24,300

These were secret disciples.

318

00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:28,540

They were members of the Sanhedrin.

319

00:41:28,540 --> 00:41:34,260

Nicodemus never appears in the daytime, only at night.

320

00:41:34,260 --> 00:41:38,020

And what brought them out?

321

00:41:38,020 --> 00:41:41,260

The crucifixion of our Lord.

322

00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:44,380

And they came to the cross and buried him.

323

00:41:44,380 --> 00:41:50,780

Otherwise the body of our Lord would have been only food for carrion birds.

324

00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:55,740

It was the crucifixion that united them.

325

00:41:55,740 --> 00:42:01,220

Now the crucifixion is closely related to the Eucharist, and I'm about to tell you

326

00:42:01,220 --> 00:42:04,940

in a few moments why it is the center.

327

00:42:04,940 --> 00:42:15,940

We concentrate for the most part on just one aspect of the Eucharist, the life-giving side.

328

00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:20,260

But there's a death side of the Eucharist.

329

00:42:20,260 --> 00:42:24,940

Now most of us have studied biology.

330

00:42:24,940 --> 00:42:27,360

Remember the metabolic processes of nature?

331

00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:34,300

The anabolic, the buildup, the catabolic, the turn down, tear down?

332

00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:42,540

Let's first of all treat the anabolic or the life-giving side of nature and the Eucharist.

333

00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:52,460

If for example, the sunshine, the moisture in the earth, the carbons and the phosphates

334

00:42:52,460 --> 00:43:01,940

could speak, they would say to the plants, unless you eat me, you shall not have life

335

00:43:01,940 --> 00:43:05,340

in you.

336

00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:11,980

If the plants could speak, they would say to the animals,

337

00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:18,420

unless you eat me, you shall not have life in you.

338

00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:20,860

If the chemicals and plants and animals could speak,

339

00:43:20,860 --> 00:43:26,100

they would say to us, unless you eat me,

340

00:43:26,100 --> 00:43:29,140

you shall not have life in you.

341

00:43:29,140 --> 00:43:32,660

And our blessed Lord said, unless you eat me,

342

00:43:32,660 --> 00:43:36,420

you shall not have life in you.

343

00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:39,620

The lower is transformed into the higher.

344

00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:43,540

Chemicals into plants, plants into animals,

345

00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:47,340

animals into man, man into Christ.

00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,600

That is the anabolic building upside of the Eucharist.

00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,760

And I spoke about the importance of the death of Christ.

00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,760

So now we come to the catabolic.

00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,060

Nature teaches us that too.

00:00:31,060 --> 00:00:42,480

If the plants, if the plants could speak, they would say to the sunshine, to the moisture,

00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:51,160

to the chemicals in the earth, you are inert, you're lifeless.

00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,820

Would you like to live, not be just a thing?

00:00:57,060 --> 00:01:01,300

Well, you cannot live in me the way you are.

00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:04,440

If you chemicals want to live in my kingdom,

00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,180

you will have to die to yourself.

00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:12,320

And if the animals could speak,

00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:17,000

they would say to the plants,

00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,000

You're fixed, you're immobile.

00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:27,360

You cannot move from shade to sunshine.

00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:33,380

You cannot see or hear or taste.

00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:35,580

I live in a higher kingdom.

00:01:35,580 --> 00:01:39,680

Would you like to live in me, you plants?

00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,680

Not as you are.

00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:47,680

You have to be pulled up by the roots.

00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,680

And you have to be ground beneath the very jaws of death.

00:01:52,680 --> 00:02:00,680

And then alone you can live in my kingdom and be a sentient being.

00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,680

Man says to the animals,

00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,680

You cannot think.

00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,680

You cannot scan the stars.

00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,680

You cannot love.

00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,680

Would you like to live in my kingdom?

00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,680

Not as you are.

00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,680

You will have to die to yourself.

00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,680

You will have to submit yourself to the knife

00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,680

and to the shedding of blood.

00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:36,320

Then alone can you live in my kingdom and Christ says to us

00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,760

Unless you die to yourself. You cannot live in me

00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,680

In other words

00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,800

The Eucharist is a sacrifice

00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,680

and a sacrament.

00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,160

You have to have a sacrifice before you can have a sacrament.

00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,400

Now in a short time, if I do not talk too long,

00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,240

you'll go to dinner.

00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:27,480

The food will be your sacrament, but that food had to be sacrificed

00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:38,640

and subjected to fire and the flame, maybe the shedding of blood. So that the

00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:48,600

Eucharist therefore relates us primarily to the death of Christ, then he becomes

00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,340

becomes our life.

00:03:51,340 --> 00:03:55,240

The risen Christ becomes our life.

00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:00,680

We, it might be objective,

00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,480

but Christ has died once,

00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,260

says the epistle to the Hebrews.

00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:10,720

He cannot die again.

00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,900

How, therefore, do you say that the mass is a sacrifice

00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:17,800

and that Christ is continuing to die again?

00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,300

Who says he can die only once?

00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:25,540

The answer is, our Lord can die only once

00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:28,940

in the body that he took from the Blessed Mother.

00:04:28,940 --> 00:04:31,380

But Christianity means he takes your human nature,

00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:33,880

yours and yours and yours and mine.

00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,580

And he says, give me your human nature

00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:37,380

and I can die again in you

00:04:37,380 --> 00:04:39,260

and I'll give you the risen life.

00:04:39,260 --> 00:04:41,020

That is the Eucharist.

00:04:41,020 --> 00:04:54,020

That is why St. Paul says,

00:04:54,020 --> 00:05:02,220

we carry about with us the death of Christ in order that we might be a life to others.

00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:10,900

Now I began with speaking of differences and the fact that there's only a lover's quarrel.

00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:17,340

I think that many of our difficulties come from our theological language.

00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:29,220

We've got fixed expressions, Latin words particularly, and they can create prejudices and they prevent

00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:32,860

us from understanding the Eucharist.

00:05:32,860 --> 00:05:40,900

husband and wife, for example, that love one another as a husband and wife ever

00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:45,340

try to explain their love by Freud.

00:05:46,780 --> 00:05:57,660

They may not even know that he is a fraud or whatever it is, but so I think

00:05:57,660 --> 00:06:03,420

that the theological jargon to some extent has kept us apart.

00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:08,120

And here's a little instance of that.

00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:21,560

There was a poem written by Rilke in which he tells the story of a two-story house.

00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:30,060

The little boy slept on the second story, his parents on the first story.

00:06:30,060 --> 00:06:34,920

There was a floor that kept them apart.

00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,920

At night, the little boy was frightened.

00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:50,040

He would knock a book onto the floor, throw a pencil, cough very loudly.

00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:56,640

to awaken his mother. And finally his mother came upstairs, gave him a drink of water,

00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:06,640

and everything was clean and lovely. Now that floor, to my mind, is much of our theological

00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:18,160

talk. And I believe that we will soon, just simply by talking to one another, by dropping

00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:25,880

pencils and dropping books, that we will come to a deeper understanding of this great sacrament

00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:26,880

of love.

00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:36,520

Now, there's nothing that I can say to you, nothing, that will convince you of the Eucharist

00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,880

as a sacrifice and as a sacrament.

00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:47,400

There are some things you just have to experience.

00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,280

Then you come to know.

00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,240

The great mysteries of God are understood that way.

00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:09,440

Now I have in my whole life been tremendously interested in the masses of sacrifice and

00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,680

in the real presence of our Lord in the blessed sacrament.

00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:26,080

And I believe, and I have seen it fulfilled many times, that if you're looking for faith

00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:32,560

in the real presence of the Lord and the sacrament, go there.

00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:37,200

Kneel down.

00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,200

Be silent.

00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:45,200

Let him talk to you, and he will convince you, as he has convinced everyone, of his

00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:57,960

real presence. In other words, and with this I conclude, when some of the apostles first

00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:08,120

met our Lord, they said to him, where do you live?

00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,200

You know what he said?

00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,200

Come and see.

00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,200

That's what I say to you.

00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,200

Come and see.

Original Format

Audio cassette

Files

Citation

Dr. Robert Marshall and Archbishop Sheen, “Ecumenical Conference: Eucharist in Pluralism and Unity,” Catholic Historical Research Center Digital Collections, accessed October 5, 2026, https://omeka.pahrc.net/items/show/9099.